(( WARNING )) DYNOFLO ENGINES BAD DEALINGS
 

Hi Guy's Take a look at the pics below and take a guess at what happened.
I will give out more info and pics as the post progresses .
First clue is its out of a Large cube SBC Good Luck and I cant wait to here your answers.

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s...1/HPIM0821.jpg

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s...1/HPIM0827.jpg

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s...1/HPIM0826.jpg

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s...1/HPIM0834.jpg

clearance problems is my first guess

looks like a clearence problem or related .......my guess

Let's see..... either a rod-to-block clearance discrepancy,or... someone forgot to torque some rod bolts? :oops:

i would think if some one put the engine togather right with enough clearance from the rods to block and torqued everything right it did't hit the block.that would be a rookie mistake.the only why the rod makes contact with something is the main caps broke or block,or crank but that's rare.if the piston broke there wouldn't be the big contact spot because aluinium woulnd't do that to steel and no marks on the small end of rod.so does it come down to the roller lifter broke and pined between the rod and the block on down stroke and pulled the rod apart then the other bolt hit.the bearing in the pic don't have anything to do with it.the bearing slide after the rod was contacted.the rod was number 2,4,6,8.i will have more info if you take pics of cam and lifters.jeff

I'm with you i think lifter or oil pump broke off depending on what pump you ran i have seen some of the melling small block pumps brake also have seen the tip of a roller rocker brake and get caught in there to.

First Clue It had 60psi at 2000 rpm until it locked up

If's it's out of the 454" motor, i know you've already been running it, so i would say the oil pump quit, if not that a ring or ring land broke and the cylinder seized the piston causing the rod damage. That is if this is the only culprit/damage. could have broken a valve or spring, but that would be my last choice.

Zip.

Partially rite Zip out of a 454 sbc Keep tryin
but the 2nd CLUE It only had 8 minutes run time on the motor

i would think the rod bolts or main caps were left loose.i don't what to be a ass hole but ho ever put the bottom end togather screwed up. this is a classic case of OOPS i was drinking some beer. if the treads weren't pulled out and the bolts aren't broken then the bolts were never tighten.i have been building engine for 20yrs and have seen this before.good luck jeff

Re: Look at the Pics & Take A Guess Give it your Best S
 

heres my guess... something broke.. i win

I would guess only one bolt torqued

looks like a eagle rod,send the rod back to eagle and they will tell you why it faild or send it to arp they would what to see if was there stuff or the builder. they can tell you if the bolt had the right torque on it.if someone built it for you just call and show them the parts with all the pics any one with half a brain can see what happened.i hope ho ever is a standup guy and stands behind there work.it sucks i have made the same mistake and i have been building engines for almost 20yrs.good luck jeff

Guess?
 

ROD BOLT Failure!
Later
G 8)

Looks like the rod cap is on wrong way.

?
 

All depends what you Call,THE WRONG WAY??????????? :shock:
Most likely them,Bearing Tabs should be Oppossed!Not mated.But,maybe thats 1 Of them SPEED Secrects?
Sorry about your LOSSES?I'm sure the Crank took some BEATING also?
Later
G 8)

what have we got here.
-rod itself looks ok on the small end
-rod does not look to be bent.
-rod bolts look beat but not broke or stripped
-rod cap looks bent
-lots of oil pressure.
-motor ran for short time.

I would say rod bolts not torked, backed out and hit the block somewere, bending the cap.
The poor bearing did not have a chance. :cry:

Ok Guy's, No more clues.
I will let the pics do the talking.
Now tell me what you think. REMEMBER, only 8 minutes run time!
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s...1/HPIM0788.jpg
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s...1/HPIM0801.jpg
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s...1/HPIM0808.jpg
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s...1/HPIM0820.jpg
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s...HPIM0791-1.jpg
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s...1/HPIM0792.jpg

i'm raising my hand,i know i know the pan jumped up and loosed the rod bolts.just like the tree walked into the road i hit.i would blame the guy in the ugly shirt he looks guilty.just kidding it still sucks. :cry: :shock:

Yes you are correct, the rod bolts were hand tight ALL 16 OF THEM .
One step completely missed.
The mains were torqued correctly.
A large engine builder built this short block that deals on Racing Junk.
Im not naming any names just yet, but I should after what he said to me over the phone and what he has said about me in emails to other people.
Bottom line is he has already stated that it is not his fault OR responcibility.
Hmm Does that sound correct to you :?:
I will settle this if he can talk properly to me & the owner of the engine.
He can PM me Before it escallates into a very major issue.
Every one that knows me knows I'm straight up and have no reason to lie about this. I diddn't build or modify the bottom end .

the guy is a ass hole does he think ups or fedx loosed them rookie mistake.they must have the cleaning person build engines know.it's never the builder that makes the mistake.i'm sure he gave you the we check everything twice speech bull shit.it must have been dollar beer night at the bar.it must be a back door builder because anyone that knows what he is doing would stand behide there work.the easy way out for the guy is to say you did it but if you never touched the bottem end how the hell does all the rod bolts come loose they don't someone left them loose and if the guy is that dumb then there is no hope.you can buy a tractor and go pull his head out of his ass.jeff

Well, I know who and I know what.....and I must say it is a shame when all you get are lame excuses instead of being a stand up Company and doing the RIGHT thing.

It seems that customer service is a thing of the past, now if you own a business it is ok to screw customers just to keep your pockets lined.

Having been screwed by two so called engine builders this makes me literally sick to my stomach.

Fast, I hope this Company pulls their head out and does right by you!!!

That's why we build our own. That way when something happens and every once in a while it does we can only blame ourselves.


Steve

Nothing a Dart Little M block won't fix. Bearing webbing, unless it is due to a mistake being made in assembly. Such as rod or rod being put in with the chamfer being turned around. OOPS I just seen a second page..lol WOW what a mistake. Engine builders are like Drag Strip operators...... They don't give back money for any reason.

It's all in the torque wrench gentlemen
 

Ok folks..Ya'll all know I am not an engine builder, how do you know..
Well I just told you, but if I were in the business I would take the same attitude I take in my business adventures. The customer is always right. Even I can tell what the problem was and I would ask the builder of this motor only one question. Why would I sabatage my own engine :?: If your so damn smart answer that one for everyone that reads these posts. I got a feeling this is one of the PACE AMERICAN TRAILER threads all over again and I know for a fact they don't want to be in the spot light again on this site, as it costs too much $$$$ to get plastered on here for your mistakes. So anyway, good luck Donn dealing with who ever it is that didn't torque the damn bolts.............

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c3...rquewrench.jpg

I want to thank everyone for their answers & support .
Now my next question is, if you were the engine builder after seeing all that I have shown what would you do for the owner :?:
Believe me the engine builder has seen double + what I have posted here.
Also, if you were the owner of the motor What would you expect for compensation :?:
As you see I'm trying to be more than fair about this whole nightmare.
Im giving the builder till Friday to PM me & try to work something out.
At this point the words that were exchanged between us are a lesser problem, my main concern is that the owner of the motor is happy.
Do you think thats fair :?:

Yes!

i own a shop and build engines.the only thing to do is send the customer a short block.with the information highway nowadays it could be very bad for a biz to screw someone.word will spread faster then a cali wild fire and the owner will end up taking it in the ass.with proof and the pics it looks to be a open and shut case.without the bolts being broke or the threads being sheard off it couldn't be more clear.but if your a back yard builder then i guess you wouldn't know what went wroung.it is to clear to me that the guy that built the lower end doesn't have a clue.this is the stuff that could ruin a biz quick.i can't beleave the owner would take a gamble with his biz not to make it right.all you have to do is stop 4-5 people to start digging into the pockets of the owners.that's easy just think about hundreds or thousands then the door will be shut.good luck with the guy he's going to be on the fence and could fall off fast.

PAY THE TOLL AND MOVE ON IN LIFE
 

I think we all agree that who ever was suppose to torque the rod caps failed to do so for what ever reason. Based on that then who ever got paid to do it should assume the responsibility and make it right.

I also think this way of dealing with the problem has been more than far and the builder should consider himself lucky to get a chance to make it right and to show all he will stand behind his work even if he has to take it in the shorts. I know it hurts but it is the "best business" decision.

If the responsibile person thinks I am wrong that is ok, but again I say, ask PACE AMERICAN TRAILERS if they want on here in the BAD SPOTLIGHT again :?: I think not :!: :!: :!:

I SECOND THAT STATEMENT!!!!!!!! :lol: :lol:

Engine Builder Liabiliy
 

A very similar thing happened to me recently. I bought a R/M 565 HP from a friend of mine with 150 runs on it. My engine builder replaced the lifters and springs and i ran it the rest of last year. I had it completly freshened over the off season. I put in in the car, took it to the track to test and on thr first burnout it blew the oil filter down and oiled down the track. When i got back to the pits i took the oil filter off and the adapter was loose, he had put GM factory bolts in and they are to long for a Dart Big M block which has blind holes in it. It dumped over 5 quarts of oil. I called right then, sunday afternoon, to get his opinion on what to do. Even though he built the motor and he put the adapter in he told me i should have checked those bolts. All i wanted to know is what i should do. I always do whatever my engine builder tells me because i am not an engine builder. So i put a lock washer on both of them, changed the oil & filter and made 4 more runs that day. Went back next Sunday and put 5 more runs on it. On the 5th run when it shifted in to high gear it blew up. It had kicked two rods out of the pan, broke the bottom skirts out of 5 & 6, trashed 3 pistons, bent 2 exhaust valves and burnt the S$$T out of 5&6 rod journals. What do you thunk he should have done about it. I am very curiuos what yall think Thanks Don

419'the first thing is i hope he isn't you engine builder anymore.then i would pack all the shit up and drive over to his shop throw the shit at his head.how do engine builders sleep at night knowing they suck.it must be the dollar beer night every night in some places.because i couldn't sleep at night know that my shop screw someone's hard earned money out of them.i don't know how to say this any clearer. don't use a shop that doesn't have a dyno and have them include the dyno time in the price.if someone gets a motor from me they get video and dyno sheet and full build sheet with all parts and clearances.i brake the engine in for about 1hr before we make power pulls.
.if something brakes it brakes right in front of me a guess what i have to fix it not the customer.NEVER USE A SHOP WITHOUT A DYNO.NEVER TAKE THE ENGINE OUT OF A SHOP WITHOUT BEING RAN ON THE PUMP.

Sorry to here for your loss on your 565 Don.
I have a few :?:s
#1 What happened to the original bolts :?:
#2 Did your builder replace your original oil filter adapter with another one :?:
#3 What was your oil pressure before you shut the engine down after it blew the oil filter :?:
#4 Did you receive the engine from the builder with the oil filter on & the motor Primed :?:
#5 Was your engine builder aware of the size difference of the adapter bolts prior to you receiving the engine back from him :?:
#6 If local, Did the engine builder offer to check out the bottom end after it popped the filter or did he tell you it would be fine with the repairs you made:?:
I know its alot of questions but all of them could be important on the final outcome of your delema.
I know it's not the answers you were looking for but it's hard for me to give you a honest answer with out gathering as much info as I can get with out sounding like I'm on a Witch hunt for engine builders due to this nightmare Im dealing with at this time .
Look on the brite side I'll bet your guy diddn't call you uneducated or that you must really suck at being a mechanic like my builder has said about me .

On the sheet that comees with a Dart block it tells you the GM bolts are too long. It says the two oil filter adapter attaching bolts should be 1 1/4 (1.250) O.A. length. This will allow 1/2" (.500) of thread into the block. This is SHORTER than the stock Chevrolet bolts. THIS MUST BE ADHERED TO. The engine builder shouldhae noticed this.

Steve

As you can tell, I'm trying to be very fair with the engine builder.
I purchased this shortblock and all he has to do is PM me to straighten this out & make this go away. He has untill tomorrow night around 7:30 pm becauase that's about the time we first contacted him before we even pulled the engine out of the car. He has all the pics and Im sure he has read all the post,s

SCOTT S. Im giving you a chance here.
If You cant see that Im trying to give you a fair chance then I guess we will have to get the tractor out.

In the mean time can all of the Racing Junk guys give me some ideas of where else to post this & possible assistance.
I have a few already But lets Show Mr Scott S. that he cannot treat people/Customers this way even if he feels superior to them & tries to belittle & trash talk them.

So send me some ideas.

Thanks,
Donn Waters

i can post on all the dragways websites.you can go to the nhra and ihra,nmca psca and some others i'm forgeting webs and post his ass there.i go to about 15 tracks a yr and i will spread the word just send me all the e-mails and pics and copy this forum and i will hand them out at the tracks.i love bring down a ass holes that don't stand behide there work.i'm sure with the amount of people that visit this site that it wont take long before you digging deep into there pockets.we have already took down one engine builder here in mich and a chassie guy for the same shit so one more will be fun.

well evedentally this so called engine builder is a low life piece of shit!!!!!!
it isn't like the motor has had the balls ran off of it, it was mearly started for break in and the damn rods fell out of it!!!!!, i think i know what happened he did torque all the rod bolts but they apparently viberated loose during shipping...damn them fed ex trucks.....lol......if this asshole knows what is good for business he will completely make it right with you, you have been more than fair with him, you have not came on here and told everyone not to buy his products or even mentioned who this idiot is, but i tell you what if he don't make it right with you. you let me know i am a member of almost all of the drag racing sites from California to New York and i will post on all their boards how this person conducts business. now Mr Asshole make right your wrong doing and put in place a quality dept at your little back yard shop.............................................M ike

Godragracing.com has a lot of listeners.

Good Luck. My engine is alomost done from the builder and now im scared. I'll be checking bolts :wink:

Was this a mail order engine from an Ebay type company or what?

Well its now 7:34 and I haven't recieved A PM from the builder.
But he did talk to the owner and came to somewhat of a settlement.
However I personally feel the builder is getting the better end of this deal just getting a new block NO RODS, NO CRANK, NO PISTONS. Just a block, but he did say that if we would ship the shortblock back he would rebuild it.
After how he has treated this whole affair that isn't an option. But at least he made the offer for damage control.
The new shortblock will be built at Southern Style Racing Engines.
So the owner of the motor is happy for getting a new block and has full confidence in George Pills the owner of SSRE.

Now for my end of this. I will say I'm sorry to Scott Slotten of Dynoflo for calling him an A$$h&#e over the phone but he was yelling at me at the time.
But Scott, you still had No right to call a customer Uneducated & talk down to me.
Also, I don't really care for the Bashing I took in an email you responded to from a fellow racer.
I can post it if you like Or you Mr Slotten of DynoFlo can appoligize To me.Im extending my hand, the rest is up to You.


Donn Waters